Wednesday, 6 July 2022

The Many Fallacies of "The Soul Fallacy"

1. Preliminary


I recently finished reading The Soul Fallacy by Julien Musolino for the second time, and I thought I'd pen down some of my thoughts.

As a preliminary, I should mention that my reading of skeptical sources on whether or not there is an afterlife is extensive. In my experience, the arguments opposing an afterlife, a soul and substance dualism, all tend to be very similar. In general, it seems they employ the same fallacious arguments and mischaracterize their opponents' positions in precisely the same manner. It can be deduced from this that skeptics of an afterlife are not, in the main, independently coming up with their own thoughts, ideas, and arguments. Rather, they appear to be reading from the same sources and/or each other and regurgitating what others have already said1.

The Soul Fallacy follows this same trend. Hence, my criticisms of the arguments that Musolino makes also apply to many of the pervasive criticisms and misconceptions of a soul that one finds echoed in both skeptical literature and discussion boards on the net.

2. What is the Soul?


Since the author, Julien Musolino, is attempting to argue that the soul doesn't exist, he first needed to define it. So how does he conceive of the soul? More importantly, does it align with the way I and others sympathetic to an afterlife conceive of it?

Early on in the book, Musolino says he agrees with the following conception of the soul:
[The soul is] the traditional idea that there is something incorporeal about us, that the body is spiritualized by a mysterious substance. In this view, the soul is the nonphysical principle that allows us to tell right from wrong, gives us our ability to reason and have feelings, makes us conscious, and gives us free will. Perhaps most important, the soul is the immortal part of ourselves that can survive the death of our physical body and is capable of happiness or suffering in the afterlife. This is the soul that this book is about. (Musolino, Julien. The Soul Fallacy (p. 65). Prometheus. Kindle Edition.)
He also informs us that, “the soul hypothesis is a scientific claim about the detachability of mind and body and the existence of a mysterious substance powering our mental lives” (Ibid. p. 87). At another point, he says that those who believe in a soul hold that “the mind and voluntary behavior is triggered by an influx of soul substance” (Ibid. p. 152).

So, according to Musolino, soul proponents hold that the body is spiritualised by a mysterious substance and this substance both creates and powers our mental lives. I'll also note that this word “substance” is strewn throughout the book with it frequently being labelled as mysterious. The obvious question here is, what on earth actually is this “substance”?

Unfortunately, he never answers this question. But, clearly, what Musolino is referring to is what is generally labelled a mental substance. I explain this term's meaning in a blog post, The self or soul as a mental substance. In brief, it is the commonsensical conception of the self. The idea here is that with every thought, there is a thinker, and as well as experiences in the broadest sense, there is someone that experiences them. So a thinker or experiencer, or more generally the self, is not identical to thoughts and conscious experiences, rather the self is that which has those thoughts and experiences. It is what we all instinctively believe. That is until we are educated out of this conception of the self as a consequence of it being difficult..nay..impossible to reconcile with materialism. Note that this self needn't entail that it survives the death of our bodies, but if it does survive, then we can refer to it as the soul.

Are phrases like “mysterious substance”, and “influx of soul substance”, likely to conjure up this commonsensical conception of the self? Clearly not. It conjures up the impression that we are talking about something unknown, obscure, and baffling. And, of course, something mysterious. Quite the converse of what a mental substance actually refers to. Why do this? Why give a misleading impression? Why not just provide a definition of a mental substance similar to what I just gave? There seem to be two possibilities here:
  1. His principal purpose is to persuade people that there is no soul. If portraying souls as being something unknown, obscure, and baffling furthers that aim, then that is a price worth paying, even though it is misleading.
  2. He doesn't understand what a mental substance is and genuinely thinks it depicts something obscure and baffling.
Neither possibility places the author in a favourable light.

As for “1”, if it is indeed fairly obvious that souls do not exist, then why resort to underhand methods to persuade people of its non-existence? Surely it is vastly preferable to precipitate a genuine understanding in people that mental substances or souls are unlikely to exist? Yet if “2”, surely that would make him the wrong person to be writing this book? To be fair to the author, though, those that subscribe to materialism frequently mischaracterize what a mental substance is, and in a comparable manner.

There is another major problem with Musolino's conception of mental substance. This idea that this mysterious substance “gives rise to the mind” (p. 152), conjures up the idea that the soul and mind are two distinct things, even though the mind is caused by the soul. Since we are directly acquainted with our own minds, but not souls, this will naturally lend support to the idea that souls are superfluous. After all, why hypothesize an invisible soul to account for our minds when we have our visible, tangible bodies that can fulfil that role?

But many of those that subscribe to an afterlife hold that minds, mental substances, souls, and indeed selves all refer to one and the same entity. Arguably, we are all immediately acquainted with the fact that we are thinkers and experiencers (mental substances), and the question is simply whether such a self, so characterized, survives death. There is no additional entity—a “soul”—that is being hypothesized.

In summary, Musolino's conception of the soul is a morass of misleading characterizations, leaving the reader with the impression that souls are wholly mysterious, whilst at the same time leaving the reader in the dark as to what a soul actually is.

3. The Soul is a Scientific Hypothesis?


Musolino persistently claims throughout the book that the hypothesis of a soul is a scientific one. He says:
Maintaining that the soul plays an active role in our psychological functioning, that it can operate independently from the body, and then trying to argue that these claims are not scientific is a clear case of doublespeak. (Ibid. p. 58)
And shortly after he says:
[T]he idea of an immaterial substance that can interact with our body to make us do the things that we do— act morally, feel sad or elated, or jump up and down on Oprah Winfrey's couch Tom Cruise– style— is a claim about physics. (Ibid. p. 59)
A self's conscious states do indeed play a role in our psychological functioning. What this boils down to is that soul proponents, as well as those interactive dualists that deny an afterlife, reject the idea that the physical world is closed. The phrase that the “physical world is closed”, sometimes referred to as physical causal closure, refers to the idea that all change in the world is purely and exclusively a result of the interactions of the four physical forces existing in nature (namely, gravity, electromagnetism, the weak nuclear force, and the strong nuclear force). Believing in a causally potent soul/self contradicts such physical causal closure.

I agree that, at least in principle, this contravening of physical causal closure will be detectable. However, I suspect that the initial impact on consciousness will likely be minute, perhaps on the quantum scale. It is only then, via physical chains of causes and effects, that this initial impact cascades into larger and larger effects. Importantly, since neuroscientists are virtually all materialists, they won't be looking for any such influence, least of all any minute influence. Furthermore, and crucially, our functional MRIs lack the resolution to make any assertions in this regard in any case.

Musolino also states that psychology and biology will be impacted by the existence of a soul. However, even if we grant that these disciplines are, in principle, reducible to fundamental physics, in practice they have their own laws--laws that are revealed by our empirical investigations of the world. Hence, if causally efficacious non-material selves or souls exist, their activity in the world will be implicitly incorporated into such laws.

There is a more decisive reason, though, why dualism, and by extension, the existence of a soul, isn't primarily a scientific hypothesis. To see why we have to go back to the 17th century when modern science was born. At that time, it was taken as a matter of fact that the world is full of colours, sounds, odours, and other qualitative aspects. This created a problem for a scientific description of the world since such qualitative aspects of the world cannot be measured, and hence cannot be captured by mathematical equations. For example, neither the red colour of a tomato nor its characteristic taste can be captured by mathematical equations.

It took Galileo's reimagining of the world to take care of this problem. In this reimagining, material objects, indeed, the whole material world including the brain, don't really possess colours, sounds, odours, and other qualitative aspects. Instead, the material world was defined as merely consisting of the quantifiable or measurable aspects of reality; namely size, shape, location, motion, and nothing else. Hence, colours, sounds, and odours and so on were no longer treated as being part of the material world at all, instead they were relegated to existing in the mind only. And in fact, at least in science, the words standing for these qualities have been redefined to refer to those aspects of the material world that precipitate the appropriate qualitative experiences in our minds. For example, colours were redefined to refer to the respective specific wavelengths of light that objects reflect. The upshot of all this is that it left the material world as being exclusively composed of things and processes that can, in principle, be detected by our measuring instruments, and thus can be measured. 

The consequence of this was that the physical sciences could now potentially describe the material world in its entirety. That is, no aspect of the material world resides beyond its ambit. Yet, science also has its limitations since it can only describe that which is measurable, or in other words, that which is material. This means that our experience of colours, sounds, and odours reside beyond the ambit of science. So too do our emotions, our thoughts, the pains we experience, and indeed, the entirety of our conscious lives. Hence, consciousness as a whole, and a fortiori, the self or soul that has all these conscious experiences, resides outside the ambit of science. 

In order to make this notion that science has its limitations more clear, it might be illuminating here to introduce an analogy. Metal detectors have a great deal of success in detecting metal. But they cannot detect wood, plastic, rubber, or anything else non-metallic. And, so long as metal detectors are merely metal detectors, they will only ever be able to detect metal, and never anything else. In a similar manner, the physical sciences can only detect the material or that which is measurable. It cannot detect that which is non-measurable, so it cannot directly detect consciousness, or selves, or souls should they exist. At best, we could only measure the effect on bodies initiated by the causal power of consciousness. But, as I have already mentioned, such an initial mental influence is unlikely to be currently detectable.

I conclude, contra Musolino, that we cannot claim that the soul is a scientific hypothesis. It is a philosophical one and, more specifically, a metaphysical one.

I perhaps should add here that although a type of dualism is seemingly entailed by virtue of the way that Galileo defined the material world, this in no shape or form entails the existence of a soul that survives the death of our bodies. All dualism means is that there are two types of things or existents in the world. There is the material world, cashed out by everything we can measure. And there is consciousness, with all its contents. There is nothing innately contradictory about physical things and processes somehow creating such a non-material consciousness.  


4. Reductive Materialism


Pixelated "illusion"

Despite the carving up of reality that Galileo introduced that seemingly entailed a type of dualism, there is a position that explicitly denies any type of dualism, a position called reductive materialism,2 This holds that consciousness, if it exists at all, is reducible to material processes. The argument is that although consciousness might seem very different to any physical thing or process, this doesn't mean that it is. Musolino, near the end of his book, tries to illustrate this to his readers by presenting us with a picture of what appears to be an assortment of random pixels (see picture above). However, when viewed from afar, the pixels can be seen to represent a crude picture of Elvis Presley. Let me try to further illustrate this idea by providing my own example. A house seems something very different to its component bricks, but nevertheless, a house is nothing but an assemblage of such bricks. In a similar vein to these examples--or so the argument goes--it might seem strange that our conscious experiences are really nothing but an assemblage of neurons firing, but that is what they are. Note that, here, we are not saying that the brain somehow causes consciousness, rather, consciousness just are brain processes, but at a different level of analysis.

We would rule out the possibility of a picture of Elvis existing without any pixels or anything else composing it. Likewise, should reductive materialism be correct, then it definitively rules out any type of essence or soul that might continue on after our brains cease to function. Indeed, if reductive materialism could, purely by reason, be shown to be the correct depiction of the mind-body relationship, there would be no need to appeal to any empirical arguments in order to reject a soul. So there would be no need to appeal to, for example, an argument such as the apparent dependency of the mind on a properly functioning brain.

Yet there is a problem here, and it is this: the analogies appealed to are false, and, it seems to me, transparently so. For, at least in principle, we can always see how an object--say some elaborate model created by Lego or Meccano--is merely an aggregation and arrangement of its component parts. More importantly, we wouldn't expect that Lego bricks, no matter how many and elaborately assembled, could somehow constitute an experience. So, to mention a few examples. Lego bricks, no matter how arranged, could ever as a collective whole somehow constitute the bitter taste of lemons, or of a pain like cramp, or the experiences of blueness, or of any other raw experience. And it doesn't help if we imagine the Lego bricks are able to move in relation to each other. Nor even if we imagine the bricks to have other properties, say the ability to repulse or attract other bricks. At the end of the day, they cannot, as a collective whole, constitute anything other than an elaborate physical structure. The exact same point applies to the ultimate constituents of material reality, namely electrons and quarks. Neither the Lego bricks nor any other physical object or process, can, as a collective whole, constitute raw experiences.

It appears to me, then, that at least reductive materialism is not tenable, as it cannot be squared with the existence of consciousness. How does Musolino respond to this argument?

He doesn't. He says:
If body and mind are two sides of the same coin, then how can we reduce the latter to the operation of the former? I'll let philosophers worry about this question. (Ibid. p. 65)
So Musolino doesn't even attempt to justify reductive materialism3. He's not the only one, either. None of the authors of The Myth of an Afterlife attempt to justify reductive materialism either, nor indeed anywhere else that I've ever seen.

Musolino does, however, advance philosophical arguments against dualism, although he simply repeats more or less the same arguments that many others have made. I have argued in various places that none of these arguments has merit (for example, see my A Causal Consciousness, Free Will, and Dualism under the subheading Various Objections and my The Alleged Problems with Interactive Substance Dualism). Moreover, even if, contrary to my position, these objections did have some force and moreover were even decisive, this could do nothing to make reductive materialism tenable. It would merely oblige us to choose another position on the mind-brain relationship, apart from reductive materialism or dualism. Perhaps some variant of idealism, for example. In fact, some variant of idealism is what I personally gravitate towards.

To reiterate, reductive materialism's failure to accommodate consciousness in no shape or form implies that brains do not somehow create consciousness. Nevertheless, its failure is of high significance. For since the birth of modern science in the 17th century, it was the gradually spreading conviction that the world is wholly material that justified a rejection of a soul in the first place (see my Science, the Afterlife, and the Intelligentsia).

But if, as I have argued, consciousness cannot be reduced to material processes, then it is something extra above material processes, even though arguably produced by them. Consciousness is then not publicly observable. That is, no matter how much we might explore someone's brain, we will only ever detect material processes; we could never see someone's thoughts, or emotions, or any other mental phenomena. So instead, we are obliged to infer that others are conscious through their bodily behaviour. Yet, if their consciousness itself is invisible, how could we know that it ceases to exist when their bodies eventually cease functioning? That it doesn't depart the body and continue existing, perhaps ascending to another reality?

The answer to this question is allegedly the empirical data, and especially the fact that dysfunctional brains lead to impaired minds. It is to the consideration of such empirical data that we will now turn.

5. Dysfunctional brains lead to impaired minds


As I have mentioned, in my experience, those who reject a soul virtually never advance arguments for reductive materialism. Instead, in order to justify their stance that brains create minds, what they almost exclusively do is to appeal to the empirical evidence. This evidence, in turn, almost exclusively revolves around the fact that dysfunctional or damaged brains can have a major impact on our minds. Musolino, in common with other skeptics, likewise mainly relies on the empirical evidence. For example, he says:
If damage to only parts of the brain can make you lose your ability to see, think, or feel, then how can all these abilities remain intact when your whole brain is completely kaput? (Ibid. p. 153)
Exactly the same sentiment is expressed by many other skeptics of souls. The philosopher Sam Harris, for one, and I respond to him in my blog post, The Mind-Brain Correlations. I recommend people read that blog post now if they haven't already (it's fairly short). Here is a relevant question: would Musolino, Harris et al. be equally mystified by the fact that someone’s vision can be more and more impaired as the lenses in their eyeglasses fog up, even though, notwithstanding this, their vision is fully restored when they take their eyeglasses off?

Of course, they might attempt to counter this by saying that eyeglasses and other such examples are incorrect analogies. However, it seems to me, that such analogies are only incorrect if one assumes up-front that brains create minds. Since that is precisely the issue at hand, it follows that saying it's an incorrect analogy would, therefore, simply beg the question (in the sense of the informal fallacy). 

Indeed, on the face of it, it seems to me that in this context, the analogy of eyeglasses and vision are of a similar nature to brains and minds. For just as there is no possible mechanism in the lenses in eyeglasses that could create vision, similarly there is no conceivable mechanism within brains that could create consciousness. To elucidate, we have chains of material causes and effects occurring in the brain and these causal chains, like all material causal chains, are exclusively characterised by properties such as mass, charge, momentum, spin, and so forth. But, at the end of such causal chains, we get a sudden abrupt change, a radical disconnect from these measurable processes to subjective experiences such as the greenness of grass, the warmth of love, the smell of roses, and so on. These subjective experiences do not have physical properties, so the usual material causal mechanisms cannot apply to account for their existence. Indeed, to my mind, this possibility that brains create consciousness is, on the face of it, just as outlandish as to suppose our glasses are creating vision.

I feel I may still not yet have adequately conveyed the deeply implausible nature of this hypothesis that brains create consciousness. Let me put it this way. When I was a child, one of my favourite books was The Marvellous Land of Oz. In this book, the main character constructs a man mainly made out of wood, but also with a pumpkin for a head. A magic spell makes this wooden man come alive, that is, become conscious. As young children, I'm sure that most of us would think this is at least plausible, but as adults, most of us would find such an idea absurd. And yet, this is comparable to what we are being asked to accept. For, in a sense, it seems equally magical that brains could create consciousness, since there is no conceivable mechanism. 

But let's waive aside the deeply implausible nature of this claim that brains create consciousness. Let's, for the sake of argument, accept that it’s at least possible. That it might well be an unanalysable brute fact about the world that certain physical activity of a certain type of complexity just spontaneously brings conscious experiences into being. Why, though, prefer this possibility to the alternative that selves and their conscious states already exist with brains merely affecting our minds?

Indeed, this alternative is surely vastly more plausible. To illustrate this, consider the following. Let's imagine that I can see a tree in front of me. How is this possible? Well, the tree has to exist, my eyes need to be functioning, and the appropriate regions of my brain need to be functioning correctly. Considering how incredibly complex my brain is, this makes for an intricate causal chain. Yet, for all that, I can stop my vision of the tree, in a sense, delete my vision, by the simple act of closing my eyes. Or, to introduce my eyeglasses example again, my vision of the tree could be compromised, or even blocked if the lenses were fogged up. Conversely, my vision of the tree can be restored by the simple act of opening my eyes again or cleaning the lenses of my eyeglasses. However, opening my eyes or cleaning my lenses obviously play no role in creating my vision. The bottom line is this. The process by which we are able to visually see is a complex, involved one. Contrariwise, very simple acts or procedures can block or restore our vision. But it would be very naive to suppose that these very simple acts and procedures play any role in the actual creation of our vision.

The point is this, generally speaking, the act of creating something tends to be a convoluted and complex one, whereas merely adversely affecting something is, typically, far easier to achieve. Why not, therefore, prefer the far more feasible and relatively unproblematic hypothesis that the self and its conscious states are not created by the brain at all? That the brain, instead, merely changes, modulates, and attenuates this pre-existing self with its conscious states?

Musolino has other things to say regarding the empirical data.  He says:
Your memory, your ability to talk, and your personality can be wiped out by brain damage. People who suffer from asomatognosia will assure you that part of their body, say their left arm, does not belong to them. In anosognosia, patients are convinced that a paralyzed limb is perfectly functional. The Capgras delusion is a condition in which patients sincerely believe that their loved ones have been replaced by impostors. Individuals who suffer from Fregoli syndrome hold the delusional belief that they are persecuted by a person who can take the appearance of different people. All these conditions result from damage to different areas of the brain. The allegedly indestructible soul is very fragile indeed. In light of such evidence, how can anyone believe that the mind will continue to function when the entire brain has given up? (Ibid. p. 161)
What Musolino refers to as the fragility of the mind is simply that it can be changed and altered by the brain, which he believes implies that the mind is created by the brain. As I have already argued above, this in no shape or form follows. We also need to remember here that we’re talking about a mental substance as defining the self or soul (see part 2). In which case, beliefs, memories, and indeed personality, are properties of such a self–they can change without the self or soul literally changing, least of all without the soul being destroyed. To reiterate, the proposal is that the brain is merely able to attenuate, allow or block the expression of such properties (see my The self or soul as a mental substance, where I elaborate upon this idea).

But what, specifically, should we say about delusional beliefs? If the brain doesn't create consciousness, could it still precipitate delusional beliefs such as, for example, Capgras syndrome?

To go back to my eyeglasses. Suppose someone has perfect unaided vision and puts on a pair of eyeglasses where the lenses both contain aberrations of a certain nature. Wearing them, she might think she can read the registration plate of a car 25 metres away. But, in fact, what she thinks are the letters and numerals are incorrect, as she can ascertain by taking the eyeglasses off.

So delusional beliefs are not definitive proof that the brain wholly causes our consciousness. Having said that, if we consider this evidence in isolation, it is surely the more straightforward explanation. However, we also need to take into account that we have no conceivable mechanism whereby brains could create consciousness. Moreover, even if we did, the brain merely affecting consciousness in various ways is undoubtedly a far less convoluted and complex task than actually creating consciousness.

6. Summing Up


How impressive are Musolino's arguments that there is no soul? Of pivotal importance to his arguments is the notion that the soul is a scientific hypothesis. But, as I argue above, in no shape or form can this be maintained. Furthermore, he fails to understand both the dualism he attempts to attack and the reductive materialism he subscribes to but chooses not to defend. His attacks against the former appear to be a more or less copy and paste from other sources, attacks that I think lack any meaningful impact. Worse yet, he clearly fails to understand what is meant by a mental substance and, therefore, what a soul is. So there's a lack of understanding of any of the main terms. Moreover, the few philosophical arguments he advances are naive and shallow.

Having said that, the empirical arguments don't depend on knowing what any of these terms mean; rather, they attempt to show more directly that the mind in every way is implicitly dependent on a functioning brain. However, in the general sense, the fact that X affects Y in no shape or form implies that X creates Y. I gave the example of eyeglasses, but many other examples could be given (see my blog post Brains affecting Minds do not rule out an Afterlife where I provide more examples).

I think Musolino, just like other materialists, simply buys into and echoes the prevailing belief that our ubiquitous technology and control of the world somehow vindicates the idea that the physical sciences must potentially describe the whole of reality, otherwise why would science be so phenomenally successful? I discuss the origin of this pervasive belief in my Science, the Afterlife, and the Intelligentsia4 I find it perplexing that people do not understand that such a materialist perspective is not consistent with the existence of consciousness, regardless of whether consciousness is created by the brain or not.

In conclusion, I do not think that this book offers any substantive arguments against the notion of a soul. Indeed, I regard it as being even poorer in this regard than The Myth of an Afterlife (see my review of that book).

There's a lot I haven't covered in this review. I do, though, cover more of the material in my Kindle notes. In addition, I also cover some of Musolino's arguments in various blog posts here, here and here, although the latter two are not concerned with the soul as such.

1 Of course, this doesn't just apply to those skeptical of a soul. My experience is that this is universal, most notably in politics, where people gravitate to polarised positions and adopt all the beliefs of their chosen in-group. They generally do not independently formulate their own views.


2 There are other forms of "materialism" that Musolino never mentions. Most notably, there is non-reductive materialism. However, it seems to me that in as much as non-reductive materialism holds that qualia exist and are irreducible to material processes, then it cannot be materialism; at least not in the sense of being exhausted by its quantitative properties. Rather, it seems to me that it's actually a form of dualism; namely, a form of property dualism. As such, the arguments I advance in part 5 that question the plausibility of the thesis that brains somehow create consciousness, will also apply to non-reductive materialism.


3 He claims there is overwhelming evidence supporting materialism, by which he appears to mean reductive materialism. However, it is clear to me that he simply means overwhelming evidence that the brain somehow creates consciousness. Unfortunately, Muslino seems confused about what both the words materialism and dualism actually mean.


4 Recently, I have slightly modified this Science, the Afterlife, and the Intelligentsia essay.



16 comments:

  1. A counter example to the idea that injuries to the brain prove that consciousness is brain-created, is the case where a person with very little brain tissue is still a normally functioning consciousness. An article describing this can be found at: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-tiny-brain-shocks-doctors/

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  2. The brain with little tissue started out like that from birth. It wasn't damaged along the way. So the mind functions would again correlate to specific parts of the small brain, and if those parts were damaged then the corresponding mind functions would be affected.
    To show a mind is not brain-generated, you need to demonstrate a brainless mind, not a mind correlated to a small brain. And no brainless mind has ever or will ever be demonstrated.

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    1. This comment doesn't appear to address anything I said. And I not understand the relevance of your first paragraph. It doesn't counter any of my arguments, nor does it constitute any reason to suppose the brain generates the mind.

      Re The 2nd paragraph, I cannot, of course, *show* that the mind isn't generated by the brain. All we can do is look at all relevant reasons and evidence and come to some sort of informed provisional conclusion. Also, it would reverse the burden of proof, since the book I reviewed claimed to show the supposition of a soul is unreasonable. It does not appear to me to succeed in this task.

      Delete
  3. "I find it perplexing that people do not understand that such a materialist perspective is not consistent with the existence of consciousness"

    It's very simple - you cannot show that consciousness cannot emerge from a physical brain. You just assume it. And so why is it perplexing to you that people refuse to accept your bald assumption? Do you think people should just accept your axiomatic assumptions???

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    1. To quote the sentence I said in its entirety:

      "I find it perplexing that people do not understand that such a materialist perspective is not consistent with the existence of consciousness, regardless of whether consciousness is created by the brain or not."

      I wonder why you are not quoting the full sentence. I am aware that people persistently misunderstand what materialism means, that they think it simply means that the brain creates consciousness. Anyone who both reads and understands my essay will realise what materialism means. I even clarified myself to forestall any potential misunderstanding.

      Of course, I understand why people believe the brain creates consciousness! At one moment someone might be fully alive having experiences, the next moment they're dead, just a lifeless body, a corpse or dead meat, that will never be reanimated. It *feels* ridiculous that they are somehow still conscious, perhaps floating above their bodies. But, again, I specifically was talking about modern reductive *materialism*.

      And again, I do not *assume* that brains do not create consciousness. People simply need to read this blog post and many others of mine to appreciate that. Of course, people might well disagree with my reasoning. But what I emphatically do not do is assume, least of all baldly assume, or accept it as an axiom, that consciousness does not "emerge" from the brain (incidentally, I hate this weasel word "emerge" used in this context).

      The problem that I always encounter is that people appear to wilfully misunderstand me regardless of how often I repeat myself. They assign positions to me that I do not hold. They appear to understand little of what I actually say, and introduce extraneous issues. In short, they appear to be simply interested in point scoring. They are not interested in a serious engagement with the ideas I advance. You are one of those people.

      I'm not interested in doing this. If people want to disagree with me, then that's fine. But they need to engage with what I said, so that I'm having a serious, thoughtful exchange of ideas.

      I am aware there are a few comments you've made today that I have not published. If they are like the 2 comments from you today that I've already seen, I won't be publishing them. Comments need to be relevant.

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    2. Steven Evans, regarding your last 2 comments. They are not contributing anything of any substance, so I've decided not to publish them. It's of no avail simply flatly contradicting what I have argued, and not specifying any actual flaws in my reasoning. I don't want to get into the situation where I'm simply regurgitating what I've already said in my main posts.

      I am not allowing any further comments from you.

      Delete
    3. 1 there are more than 100 cases of people and animals that remove most of their brain up to 75% percent and it does not matter if it is the right or left side,, these people do not lose memories, nor do they change their personality or damage the brain, This includes people who also suffered accidents and lost more than 70% of the brain, and neither lost memories, personality, etc.
      2 I remember that in a publication from 2019 you said that many dualists do not address these materialistic problems of the brain, but I have seen that many do, like the ones I just mentioned to you, mark mahin is definitely the one who best addresses them, in his headtruth pages .blogspot.com and https://futureandcosmos.blogspot.com/, also followed by Mandinamerica, etc.
      3 steven's objection that it only happens with those born that way resorting to the fallacy of (plasticity) which is an ambiguous term that does not support materialism, even if it were partially true in the case, that does not explain that a layer of brain that represents less than 10% of the brain manages to have a soul, since there are also cases where most of the brain is damaged and removed or people who extract the fluid from the brain when they are older or children without complications and their (brain was damaged) because of the push, or simply a large part disintegrated without mental complications, and the cases of children with literally nothing or almost nothing of the brain less than 5% and that their problems are physical and speech but in general they are well cognitively speaking. so the assumption that there are no cases of people with no or almost no brains who are fine is refuted, by the way I, unlike you Ian, if I say explicitly as a fact (axiom) if you want so to speak that the mind does not correlate to any degree with the brain nor does it emerge from there, since there are even dualists/theists who consider the latter as a partial fact or a possibility, but not based on the irrefutable evidence and the whole of all this
      4 another problem with atheists like jerry woerlee of mortal minds, julius mussolini of the fallacy of the soul, keith augustine, christoff koch and friends of (confessions a reductionist romantic) is that they deliberately misrepresent and omit, so they are not likely to believe the most of what they say and they just want their circle j..king of hardcore atheists who give them their money and and attention while they presume that they do not care about their supposed mortality, otherwise I cannot explain why they omit all the cases of, for example, people and animals that lose almost all their brains and are exactly the same as always, even the few cases that give of examples and their selection bias can be explained without resorting to materialism such as the memory filter that only blocks certain memories due to different physical and non-physical circumstances, for example in cases of mental retardation, Down syndrome, which are often more physical than mental. prevents them from learning certain things also sometimes underestimated in the literature of scientists the capabilities of those already mentioned and animals other cases are:

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    4. a) cases of Alzheimer's and other types of strong amnesia, as Mark Mahin said in his meta-analysis, usually occur before the brain begins to be damaged by what is not anything physical, and which further confirms the fact that memories have a filter is that there are documented cases of people who did not remember anything for 50 years about, for example, their relatives and that a few days or hours before they die with witnesses that include doctors and people without those beliefs, these people manage to remember everything Despite the fact that his brain is damaged by Alzheimer's, which confirms that even the strongest amnesias such as Alzheimer's do not erase memories forever, they simply hide them, otherwise these cases would be impossible.
      b) something similar happens with hypnosis, people who are not only operated on without anesthesia but also remember things or forget things in a matter of seconds/minutes, which proves even more that memories have a non-physical filter, which includes verifiable things of other lives etc.
      c) Another thing that I have also realized after reading all the atheists like the ones already mentioned is that whenever they want to (debunking the paranormal) they always reiterate the same cases that generally only sit in old cases in the USA and some countries of Europe, almost never from other places or newer cases, even the same cases that are often repeated by misrepresenting, for example, as you mentioned in your review of the book (the fallacy of the soul) the case of Maria's shoe that two atheist teenagers in 96 they misrepresented and since then atheists have copypasted them on their web pages, michael prescott has a full rebuttal to the explanation of those teenagers on his page of the same name and in turn titus rivas has refuted Gerry Woerlee on his explanations of the NDE and misrepresentations
      4. Another point I would like to touch on is that the case of Phineas Gage has been distorted to say that (personality change) when that did not happen, I have a link where they clarify the case, the assumption that not having a hypothalamus damages episodic memories long and short term is also a lie, to begin with people who (can no longer remember much in the future) can remember, simply that sometimes they cannot remember much in the future for reasons of learning and physical damage but these people can remember in the future only sometimes less, generally for physical and temporary reasons, also in the literature people who remove or do not have the hypothalamus and other parts of the brain where episodic memories are supposed to be ,yet can remember everything perfectly or even better than people normal
      5 A CASE that shows even more my point of the brain as a memory filter, is that for example in a case of mental retardation a man who could not live on his own and could only say his name, when a large part of his brain was extipred, he learned to speak and do things by itself, and so he could continue .
      In short, the cases of mental lucidity are among the most impressive of people who are about to die and give specific memories of things that were not present, the memories of children up to 2 years old from other lives that are verified with luxuries of details and that there is no information in any audiovisual medium, pre-birth memories, poltergeist especially to young children live, which rules out acting and special effects, gm woerlee and others say that there is no irrefutable evidence of ECM with luxuries of details etc . However, if there are and the poor explanations that try to give to famous cases such as Maria's shoe, the teeth of a ,man, titus rivas refute them, so there is irrefutable evidence of a mind independent of the brain, in response to such steven evans. It's good that you didn't approve of his annoying atheist comment, that only he wants to have the last word

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    5. Hello germancartoon. I know you wrote three comments, but I haven't published the first one as it contained an inaccuracy about me regarding what I read.

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    6. ok, it was not my intention to make any statement about you, if so I apologize, I reviewed the first part of my comment that you did not publish and I think I did not say anything about you there, if so , I wasn't referring to you, but my point in general is that it's okay to state something as a fact if there's enough evidence and that's what I do, I didn't mean to say otherwise, but I apologize, I just hope you read the rest from the first part ,where I gave the context of mark mahin and as in more than 300 articles together with others such as J jay from mandinamerica and bernardo ketrum that I have seen comment here are one of those who do the best job refuting the 200-something (studies) materialists ,that "scientifics" have been doing since the 80s, with meta-analysis and mathematics, etc., added to the misrepresentation of Evans , because not matter that
      the pacient was born with a layer of the brain ,or will pass later, he does not suffer mental damage, I would also like to add that since 2020 atheists, agnostics and supremacists aremuch less active especially because their pages receive less traffic as I show on my anti-materialism facebook page, where I publish 3 books where I literally refute all (against evidence and arguments) that exist from all atheists, agnostics, racists and misogynists

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    7. In my essay I say. "my reading of skeptical sources on whether or not there is an afterlife is extensive". And that's it. The question of whether we survive our deaths is independent of whether these is a "God" or not, and especially the "God" that atheists attack. And there's no point in reading all the arguments against a "God" since what atheists attack does not remotely resemble what I believe (as I articulate here http://ian-wardell.blogspot.com/2022/04/my-beliefs-regarding-god.html)

      BTW, that Steven Evens responded to you, but I haven't allowed its publication. Like other atheists, he too is merely interested in the God of the Bible. And he bangs on about mentally deluded people believing in "God" etc.

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    8. ok, thanks, I understand you, I had already read your post about your conception of God and it is similar to what I defend, only that I defend with evidence that he is personal, as someone said in your post about God, that if he is conscious is personal, and that It can also be complemented with the fact that conscious beings are part of God, etc.
      Also in the post, someone compare god with trump for the "bad" things that I also refute on my page with a better translation in my book, obviosly trump is racist but god is no related to him,
      Beside famous Christian and non-Christian apologists with whom I have contacted have helped me , and I am aware that many who support the paranormal are not religious and some are even anti-religious like alex from skeptoid and the admin of a page called world gems which is anti-religious and anti-reincarnation,his objections against religion and reincarnation have i already been addressed.
      Obviously there are religious people like some Christians who also deny most of the paranormal, which I also address.
      On my page I basically told that the paranormal and the historicity of different religions are not fought, for example in the side of evidence of things of religion I address the bleeding Eucharist, personal god in out-of-body experiences such as the case of a woman who At the hospital to the surprise of the doctors, not only was she able to describe very specific things that her sister was doing at home, but her sister was able to describe what her sister's spirit was doing and both were surprised to tell each other.
      In that same experience, said woman was able to go to heaven and literally saw God face to face and other similar cases that are proven not to be hallucinations.
      and finally, I would like to know what Evans said more or less, but from what you say , are the typical objections against religion such as "contradictions, bad things" that people only believe because they want to believe, etc. the same redundancies that do not say anything beyond tautologies for what you say, despite the fact that in my first comments I did not even talk about religion, only about the paranormal.

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    9. @Ste, I'm going to allow the publication of your response to germancartoon since he wants to know what you said.

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  4. "so there is irrefutable evidence of a mind independent of the brain,"

    You have given no examples of mind functionality without a physical brain. It's true that people can be *born with* surprisingly little brain volume and have a perfectly functioning mind; also that people can have parts of the brain removed and still enjoy mind function. But there are parts of the brain which are critical to language functions, for example. All your examples (are they true?) still include some physical brain, and you have provided no examples of a mind without any physical brain. Nor have you suggested what other inputs there might be to the mind than the physical brain.

    " in response to such steven evans. It's good that you didn't approve of his annoying atheist comment, that only he wants to have the last word"
    There is no such thing as an "atheist". There are mentally deluded people who believe in fairy tales, then there are the sane, like me. To suggest that there is a conscious being corresponding to the fictional character "God" in the book of myths, the Bible, is as mentally deluded as suggesting Zeus is a conscious being because he appears in Greek myth. Blocking people from a blog because they don't agree with you is not cool. But this is what dogmatists and ideologues do.

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  5. As I predicted, this Steven Evans only reiterates things that I already clarified, such as religion, even though I didn't even mention it, and the cases of the brain that I already gave evidence in said pages that it is not as it says, anyway Regards, Ian

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  6. As soon as the speech centers, something I forgot to mention, that is physical, not mental, in a few words, that part makes it difficult to move certain muscles of the mouth, but it does not prevent you from writing, thinking, communicating, etc.

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